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Learning the Leningrad Dutch


  • vor 16 Monate · Zitat · #21

    Evilution

    Noreaster wrote:

    I'M new to the Leningrad Dutch and I'M wondering which of the two following books are better for the newer player to the Leningrad. I have the Kindermann. This book has received some high praise. On a quick glance it seems heavy on the analysis so I get the gist that it maybe geared for the more advanced player despite some players claiming it is a great book for newer players to the leningrad. The other book I have is McDonald's 'Play the Dutch.' This book has not received that much praise and for the most part seems to be panned by Leningrad players. The reasons seem to be that some of the lines that McDonald advocates seem to be dubious if not outright busted. To counter all of this I have heard that McDonald's book is good for the newer player to the Dutch as McDonald goes over all of the basic ideas in the Leningrad Dutch. So I would like to ask anyone that maybe familiar with these two works which is the better book for a newbie to this opening? Thanks....... 

    I bought that Kindermann book years ago and was all set to go Leningrad on my opponents... first game with it---an all too familiar story-- my opponent left the book moves early and... I crashed and burned pretty fast!!  That took care of that!  Almost everyone leaves book early now-- it has to be a conspiracy!Smile

    It is probably an excellent book-- there are just so many grenades to dodge in the Dutch; I play the Stonewall and am always concerned  what's coming my way on White's second move... then you have to worry about all manner of clever moves by White once you are in the variation of your choice.

    One way I thought getting to the Leningrad by transposition was slick:  1. d4 d6  2. c4  f5-- but you must be able to stomach the Pirc and 2. Nf3, etc.

    These people who are warning you of impending doom are just trying to help--- it's no wonder the King's Indian is so popular-- an eventual f5 is much safer than an early one!

    The Slav keeps looking better everyday--- solid and boring! But safe!

    Good luck in your Leningrad adventures!  Please let us know about your progress with it in the future!

  • vor 16 Monate · Zitat · #22

    NimzoRoy

    Estragon wrote:
    But, of course, you will not listen to this because you asked about directions, and will not consider any advice not directly on point, and get squished by the taxi. 

    Sound familiar? 

    But I'm sure you'll have barrels of fun with the Leningrad Dutch - just watch out for speeding taxicabs.

    I knew there was a reason why I never took up the Leningrad Dutch!

    PS: I don't think he'll have barrels or even thimblefuls of fun with the LD - sheesh!

  • vor 16 Monate · Zitat · #23

    Noreaster

    Estragon wrote:
    Noreaster wrote:

    What do you fail to understand? I don't care on what you or anyone else might have to say on what they think I should be doing to get better at this game....it is unwanted advice. I'm asking a simple question in the hopes of getting a decent response to my question. If I want to waste my time studying the Leningrad then I will have fun doing it.......Sheeeesh

    Suppose you are walking in the street, and approach me on the sidewalk about directions to the local chess club.

    At the same time, an out-of-control Yellow Cab driven by a sociopathic drunk driver careens down the street, headed straight towards you.  I tell you to jump out of the way.

    But, of course, you will not listen to this because you asked about directions, and will not consider any advice not directly on point, and get squished by the taxi.

     

    Sound familiar?

     

    But I'm sure you'll have barrels of fun with the Leningrad Dutch - just watch out for speeding taxicabs.

    You must like hearing yourself talk......

  • vor 16 Monate · Zitat · #24

    blasterdragon

    Noreaster wrote:
    Estragon wrote:
    Noreaster wrote:

    What do you fail to understand? I don't care on what you or anyone else might have to say on what they think I should be doing to get better at this game....it is unwanted advice. I'm asking a simple question in the hopes of getting a decent response to my question. If I want to waste my time studying the Leningrad then I will have fun doing it.......Sheeeesh

    Suppose you are walking in the street, and approach me on the sidewalk about directions to the local chess club.

    At the same time, an out-of-control Yellow Cab driven by a sociopathic drunk driver careens down the street, headed straight towards you.  I tell you to jump out of the way.

    But, of course, you will not listen to this because you asked about directions, and will not consider any advice not directly on point, and get squished by the taxi.

     

    Sound familiar?

     

    But I'm sure you'll have barrels of fun with the Leningrad Dutch - just watch out for speeding taxicabs.

     

    You must like hearing yourself talk......

    is that really your only argument?

  • vor 16 Monate · Zitat · #25

    InfiniteFlash

    one underestimated variation is this one.

     

    I think black has very interesting play contrary to the risky Ne5 variation.

    okay sure black has serious Light squared weaknesses, but his play is active as both e5 and c5 are followed commonly.

  • vor 16 Monate · Zitat · #26

    wiebelenstra

    You should read at this site the item: What is the best counter towards the dutch defence.

    I for myself have never well understood the dutch defence, but there were some skillfull participants at our site who were so kind to give a good explanation about the nature of this opening and how to play it in different versions. That are the answers you can find at this site for yourself behind this item.

    I admire your tenacy to play this difficult opening. Because I must admit that I always try to avoid this difficult opening with white and with black. So give it a go and go for it !!!


  • vor 16 Monate · Zitat · #27

    Stinetuck

    Dude ignore the players telling you to drop the leningrad study because of your rating, thats a bad arguement as for the most part you're probably going to be playing oppentents of a close enough level it won't matter. That said I do have to add that I really doubt you're going to be able to find one 'geared' towards your particular level, so you're probably going to have to suck up the dense analysis and be ready to seek advice and exsplaination often if you want to study it.

    I feel like I'd be doing you a disservice if i didn't meantion how crucial tactics drills are, as even if you achieve a superior postion out of the opening its not going to do you much good if you dont see a way to make threats and punish sloppy play by your oppenent. Almost just as important is analysising the hell out of your own games specially with someone a lot stronger than you

  • vor 4 Wochen · Zitat · #28

    jroshau

    yo Noreaster, have you been to http://www.fpawn.com/chess/IntroDutch.htm yet? it's a nice lil' starter doc on the dutch.

    i'm trying to learn some leningrad myself, and have been checking out both the McDonald books...  so far i think the Starting Out one is the better one to read first, but they are pretty similar, anyways

    i also just got the 1989 Dutch Defense by Silman and Christiansen. it has a ton of text, but its super old-school and hence 80's-computer-print-dry. silman is pretty great in general, tho

  • vor 4 Wochen · Zitat · #29

    jroshau

    also as a side-note:

    people being all like "oh thats much too complicated for someone at your level" ... that's garbage. useless, pretentious, pathetic. and plain douche-bag-y

     for just an honest question here on an a few opening books? total troll

    hope you have fun w/ the dutch! and post here what you thought about the books when you finish em

  • vor 4 Wochen · Zitat · #30

    InfiniteFlash

    How ironic is it that I posted a video on youtube today about this opening? (I didn't bump this thread)

  • vor 4 Wochen · Zitat · #31

    InfiniteFlash

    Also, btw, ive played the dutch my entire chess career. I dunno, its a life long defense that I feel like you can learn a lot from

  • vor 4 Wochen · Zitat · #32

    petrosianpupil

    I play the Dutch I have the McDonald (crap) Agastein(good) Moskalenkos (very good) kinderman (excellent) and the latest Malaniuks (I'm in heaven!) book. I think that it's an incredibly hard opening to understand as it has loads of nuances and you have to be very flexible on your plans and take great notice of move order. The stonewall is much much easier. But the Leningrad offers a a dynamic equality the stonewall doesn't even if all the early pace and tactical shots are held by white. Be warned you will lose a lot of games early unless you book up on the sidelines of which there are many.


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